Abortion

[Mitch]

Abortion is a hot topic among most societies. There are many arguments on both sides of the spectrum. Is abortion murder? If you view it as a living thing then yes. But, scientists have proven that it is in face not a living and has no mind or knowledge.

Some questions to consider:

Should women have the right to abortion? Under what conditions?

I believe women SHOULD have the right to abortion, however, under extraordinary circumstances. Is the woman living in poverty? Is she fatally ill and could this harm the child? Was this pregnancy cause by an act of rape?
I believe women should have the right, but not just because women "feel like it". I don't think it's right to abort a pregnancy because the woman is lazy.

Should men have any influence in this decision?

Men will always influence the decision, but men should not have the right to decide for the woman in this situation. It is the woman's body, not the man's, that is concerned. The man in the situation should help the woman on any decision that she makes.

[Cattraknoff]

They should have the right, yes, but as you said, under extraordinary circumstances. Being too much of an idiot not to use a condom, or other forms of birth control doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

[Gwendl]

Abortion should not be used as birth control, but each case should be looked upon individually. The problem with abortion is they try to make one size fit all. It doesn't really work very well that way. One has to look at what kind of future the baby will have. Is a teenager who hates the kid going to give him a good home, blaming the child for ruining her life? Is a rape victim going to love that baby? And of course the mother's health has to do with it also. I think there are justifications for early term abortions, but banning all straight out is going to only serve to push them underground where they are more dangerous to everyone.

[Locke]

It seems like there are better things that Catholics et al. could be doing to save lives.
Like... pressuring the Pope into making condoms morally legal. It's somewhat contradictory that one would be divided on the issues of birth control and abortion, as augmenting (or simply providing) birth control and education to more people would drastically reduce the number of abortions needed.
And yes, Gwendl, I do believe a rape victim would still love their baby, although they would undoubtedly want to abort it beforehand.

[Mitch]

banning all straight out is going to only serve to push them underground where they are more dangerous to everyone.
Yep, that's exactly what was happening when Abortion was illegal, people were dying because of the unsafe procedures. Sometimes women try and abort the fetus by drinking or taking large amounts of drugs, because their parents or the church don't want them to have an abortion, this, in result, can cause grave and fatal illnesses within the mother, even though successfully aborting the fetus.

[Ed Jones]

Abort away i say.

Times are changing, and religion can only hold back progress for so long. Ask yourself, what's more of a sin - Abortion or allowing a child to be brought up (in an already overcrowded world) where his/her parents are not fit or ready to look after them?

[brookes]

I really don't think abortion as murder. The baby still dint take the full form of life. So it is still just "matter" or "live tissue". Its like just another part of our body. If we operate and remove cancer or tumor its not murder. we are just removing live tissue.

[Coll]

Comparing a malignant tumor to a baby is a terrible analogy. Not only are they very different anatomically, but tumors also don't grow up to become people..

[Cattraknoff]

Comparing a malignant tumor to a baby is a terrible analogy. Not only are they very different anatomically, but tumors also don't grow up to become people..

Agreed... How anyone could come up with that comparison is certainly beyond me. That seems an attempt at grasping for a justification, any justification. Next they'll start saying a differing faith is a good enough reason to kill people... oh wait.

[octoparrot]

How is killing a baby widely accepted in modern society?!

[Cattraknoff]

How is killing a baby widely accepted in modern society?!

They can't agree on a definition as to what constitutes being a living person. Conservatives tend to favor the idea that it should not be killed after fertilization (often religiously inspired), while liberals tend to agree that abortion is fine until it could survive on its own, or is born.

[Coll]

Oh, I'm fine with killing babies, just against abortion.

[octoparrot]

"Conservatives tend to favor the idea that it should not be killed after fertilization"

that's exactly where a stand. when you fertalise an egg, that's when life beggins. That's also why I'm against stemcell resurch. I'm in favor of contraception, becuae your not killing an egg, you just not letting it become life in the first place.

[Cattraknoff]

"Conservatives tend to favor the idea that it should not be killed after fertilization"

that's exactly where a stand. when you fertalise an egg, that's when life beggins. That's also why I'm against stemcell resurch. I'm in favor of contraception, becuae your not killing an egg, you just not letting it become life in the first place.

Embryonic stem cells aren't the only form of stem cells. I see no problem with researching the other kinds, or using embryos which are not otherwise viable.

[Coll]

, or using embryos which are not otherwise viable.

Minority race embryos?

[Mitch]

Well, you better make sure you don't bump into anyone on the streets, you might kill some of their cells. They're living things too.
After fertilization, it's not a "living thing" (in the human sense of the term), but a jumble of cells.
And, c'mon, contraception? Be realistic, everyone knows that DOES NOT WORK!
Better send the women to jail when they have their period....

[octoparrot]

"Well, you better make sure you don't bump into anyone on the streets, you might kill some of their cells. They're living things too."

what i ment was fertaised eggs, not skin cells or hair cells.

[Coll]

Yeah, his point was that for a while an ebryo is only as living as a jumbled mass of skin or hair cells.

[Cattraknoff]

Is it a thinking, conscious person? Of course not; that point was never in question. However a jumped mass of skin or hair cells will not become a living person; an embryo will, if allowed, become a conscious, living person.

[Mitch]

an embryo will, if allowed, become a conscious, living person.
However, WHEN does it become a conscious, living person? Of course it will become a living person eventually, but it is not. Should we have funerals for every miscarriage? I think that would be a little ridiculous.

Here's the real question, should something that is not yet "living" be used to save someone who is already "living", or should the one already "living" be left to die to let something that isn't "living"... "live"?
I see no logic in that.

Abortion should be an option, but only as a last resort. If a person's life is threated because of the baby, abortion may be in order. Once again, the same question.

"Live and let die", but who/what should "live", who/what should "die"?

[Cattraknoff]

Does a mother not mourn if they lose a baby otherwise? Why must we only consider what "is" or "was", rather than as well as what could be?

It's a given that abortion is necessary if it is threatening to the mother without it, however this is simply trying to prevent further loss of life.

A fetus is not conscious (at least I do not believe it is). I see consciousness as the ability to form thoughts, self-awareness, etc. I'm not sure a complete newborn would even fit that bill, as thought is difficult without language. Again we return to the point that it will become conscious if allowed to develop.

I can say without any religious influence that allowing such a negation of the value of life (or potential life) is not going to benefit us. It could (and probably would) justify eventually the harvesting and farming of fetuses for organs and the like; it is just taking such things a step further; fetuses are not alive after all, and so they should be used to help the lives of the living. Or perhaps governments may wish to control the reproduction of people in general (as has been begun in China). Perhaps they will tell only certain people they are allowed to reproduce, and given that life has no meaning other than its raw monetary value, they can punish violators accordingly, or perhaps just sterilize most people altogether.